It just my rifle? As the late, great, legendary Jack O'Connor taught, speed kills (especially on thin-skinned predators). It should be noted that I also shot these loads with a Palmetto State Armory Freedom upper with a 1:7 twist barrel. In reference to the gentleman saying a hunter shouldnt take a long range shot, what he meant was He shouldnt take a long range shot. .416 Barrett, while a very new cartridge compared to most, is currently the ultimate boss king of extreme long-range shooting. JavaScript is disabled. Still, 2 inches high was all it needed. Thats right, Im talking about long distance shooting with an AR-15 chambered in .223 Remington / 5.56 NATO / .223 Wylde! (, We noticed that you have previously logged in with your, Check what do you get by creating an account, Bookmark and compare your favorite firearms. It shoots flat and just drops the deer.. Doesnt quite pack the punch needed for long range elk hunting though. Copyright Ammotogo.com 2023 All Rights Reserved. The 5.56x45mm NATO and 7.62x39mm are both great, but the better choice is . Rock River Arms guarantees the Ascendant ATH in .223 Wylde to shoot 3/4 MOA. Some people take their rifle out two weeks before the season and fire a dozen shots, these people probably fall into the 50 or 100 yard category. towards your level. I don't hate the 308 at all, but it's been surpassed. Ammo prices are a bit steeper than the previously mentioned cartridges, but the, While I was in Wyoming, I was able to test and evaluate the .224 Valkyrie with a rifle from Palmetto State Armory. PSA Custom Billet .223 Wylde 16" Nitride 15" MLok Rifle w/3.5lb Flat FCG, Romeo5 - ODG . more do I really need more ??? Im curious and find myself being sucked in- LOL, Honestly I love my 7mm win mag 1000 yard shots, I have a Thompson center venture 7mag with a vortex viper 6.5-24x50 scope and have dropped coyotes at 800 yards. Not to mention lugging all the equipment and having spotters. ( The Weatherby 257 is also greatly favored by Western hunters)." To test this claim, we selected Fiocchi's Field Dynamics .223 Remington cartridge hosting Hornady's proven 50-grain V-Max bullet. On up the hill to 718-yards. Some much more. And if so, which distances did you switch to the PSA? With optic mounted: 9.25 pounds. All shooting was done from sandbags off of a very solid concrete bench. The one major drawback is cost. Accuracy matters. Is it under a spell? This versatility allows you to enjoy the exceptional accuracy of .223 Remington loads and the increased velocity and downrange power of the 5.5645 NATO. Tell us about your experience with the .223 at long range! The Effectiveness of Short Barrel Rifles in 5.56/.223 August 24, 2014 by carlylelocke Introduction The debate of whether the 5.56x45mm round is effective in the M16 platform has been around since they first came into service, replacing the M14 which sported the 7.62x51mm cartridge. The technique of holding the butt rather than the fore end - not too difficult, Define your own parameters. you a link to reset your password. I don't think wind is going to be a large factor inside 300 yards either. We discussed various options and the possibility of getting a scope in hand to test and use for this long range project. That said, looking at the data, its hard to say there were significant differences between our test rifles. I then proceeded to use the scopes holdover dots and made consecutive hits at 300-, 420- and 500-yards without a miss. With the optic I had mounted it was apparent that I would run out of elevation adjustment well before the 1,000-yard targets. Prices vary greatly for rifles, but feeding them is a whole different story even if you reload. Don't even come play if you can't consistently make that shot. It's a pre-64 and well it's not used much now. Enter the 223 Wylde to open up a new world of ammo possibilities. Its not a huge issue, just be sure to jot down your corrections and return to zero after your shot so you dont forget where you are on the dials. Hand-Picked Daily GUN DEALS, and Exclusive Coupons Codes >>>, Federal Premium 69-grain Sierra Match King. Select what level shooter you are! All the ammo used for this evaluation and experiment was hand loaded on a Dillon 550B progressive press. Right here: ".300 Winchester Magnum is a favorite of hunters around the world for big game at long range. As the target shows, the 100-yard zero was right on the money. If I reload then a wildcat cartridge like 6x47 Lapua. To explain the nuances of rifle twist rates, you can read my previous article about, After reaching out to 1,250 yards on a trip to the amazing High Bar Homestead in Gillette, WY, I am now a firm believer in the .224 Valkyrie. 7mm Magnum is what I use out here on Guam, USA. Select what level shooter you are! It drops almost 400 inches at 1000 yards and drifts 100 inches at the same with a 10 MPH full value wind. . .223 Wylde Barrels 300 Blackout Barrels . My advice to anyone with an AR in .223 sitting in the safe that has been used only for short-range work, is to dust it off, mount up a Riton scope and see what you can do at extended ranges. You do not pay Just like Goldilocks, Wylde wanted a chamber that was just right for both cartridges. Want to send it really far downrange? For example, it can be used in an average room size with minimal ricochet risk. It sure isn't my spectacular marksmanship. Effective accuracy range is much different than effective and ethical killing range on game, but that is something to take into account if the rifle will be used for hunting. It will be passed down to my son and so forth. The .223 Wylde takes a different engineering approach. . The best accuracy for a 1:9 twist is found with 40-grain to 62-grain copper projectiles. An added benefit with the .223 Remington is cheap, readily available ammo. By simply combining the dimensions of the 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington chambers to maximize the benefits of both, .223 Wylde offers a chamber that can feed and effectively stabilize a wider variety of ammunition, avoid any pressure-related issues, and maintain both the accuracy of the .223 cartridge and the muzzle velocity of the 5.56. It can be used as a deer hunting cartridge under the right circumstances . They usually start at around $300. I am no expert, but scholars believe that the 6.5 Grendel was ordained during an ancient ritual in Bill Alexanders secret Temple of Ballistics. Rifles chambered for .223 Wylde is 'multi-calber' and can fire 5.56x45mm cartridges alongside .223 Remington. I use a 223 chamber in my Remington 700 Bolt gun. Our sporting .223 Rem. With a cartridge like a 6.5 Creedmor or .308 Winchester I believe this scope has more than enough elevation adjustment to make the corrections for 1,000-yard target engagement. However, the main difference is in the leade. "We have several .223 loads featuring a couple different bullet options that are designed especially for hunting. The Fred Eichler Series Predator 2 from . So he took matters into his own hands and designed one. I may earn a small part of the sale from links to any products or services on this site. This is a .223 ballistics chart (external) generated using our ballistic trajectory calculator. I recommend a longer 20-inch barrel to gain as much velocity as possible for extended range. You can load 223 brass to 5.56 pressure safely and your barrel being a wylde chamber will handle longer loads fine (again, magazine will be your limiting factor). The pressure produced by a 5.56 cartridge is measured at the mouth of the case. This carbine's 1:8-inch twist, .223 Wylde-chambered stainless steel barrel prefers Black Hills 77-grain ammo above all others, turning in sub .75-MOA groups with a 4X scope regularly. Performance and Accuracy. In June of this year my hunting partner and I conducted two introductory long range shooting classes. Caliber selection is all about figuring what trade-offs make the most sense for what you want to accomplish. After dialing in my zero, I ran out of elevation adjustment at about 24 MOA. Technically speaking, a 223 Wylde rifle has identical chamber angling as a 5.5645 rifle but also brings a .2240 freebore diameter. Posts: 1190. I understand this is an old thread, but want to reply anyway, differences between .223 Rem. Weve built dozens of ARs and well cover all the best AR-15 upgrades such as handguards, triggers, BCGs, gas blocks, and more. Wylde chambers are quite common in Rock River guns. Both rifles have a 16-inch barrel. So many variables and I think the age old "it depends". We cover how we did it with our choice of stock (budget) rifle, optic, ammo, and more. It's disconcerting to me that this cartridge always gets left out of the conversation. Throughout the power range the target image stays clear and crisp even at 24 power. Used 85 grain Winchester preamumbalistic tip, No one ever mentions the .270 Win. The 5.56 chamber has angular differences that allow . Weve got a dedicated section for the AR-15 here. The more we all know, the better organized and stronger the shooting and hunting community will be. i think the 50 bmg would make most every ones list on this topic. Also, the shorter barrel is easier to handle in tight areas than a 20 in (50.8 cm) or longer barrel. Whats your take on the 6.5 Creedmoor? Best Long-Range Cartridges 1. Cost, ease of part acquirement, availability, things you can run in an AR platform, or a perceived "coolness" factor? The next day we shot again and I tried the 720-yard plates. The differences between .223 Remington and 5.5645 NATO have been debated and explained a million times over. you a link to reset your password. My advice for the new AR-15 shooter is to go with a 16-inch government-profile (or thicker) barrel. The target below tells me this scope is very accurate from an adjustment perspective. Reloaders take notice don't give up on the .308 yet good things to come. PatrioticRaptor 5 yr. ago At 100 yards, even withh a 16-inch barrel, you will have enough velocity and power to make a clean kill every time. Site Notices. The scope mounted up quickly and easily in a Burris P.E.P.R. .300 Win Mag is your ticket. A quick zero-confirmation shot told me I had made an error and when I turned the elevation turret back to the correct setting I was exactly back on target. We tested a standard Colt LE6920 rifle, chambered in 5.5645 and an Alex Pro Firearms 223 Wylde rifle. Lets look at some of the popular calibers. Part of the pressure issues lie outside the cartridges themselves. The lead (or throat) is the area between the front of the chamber and the point where the projectile connects with the rifling. Enter Your Price Range. I just think this article was not specifically a hunting article. Barnes and Remington also have loads for hunting and long-range precision shooting. Start at min load and work your way up until you start seeing over pressure signs. This compensates for the pressure difference in the two when fired from the same case. This was the first chambering for Stoner's new AR-15 rifle and was the chambering used in the early Colt AR-15 models that saw combat in Vietnam. However, the chamber angling provides sufficient space to handle hotter 5.56 loads. The idea came to me last spring while looking through some info that came with a Rock River Arms rifle I purchased a few years ago. 223 Wylde is a hybrid rifle chamber that allows you to shoot both .223 and 5.5645 ammo from the firearm safely. Looks like another article telling us it's ok to shoot at an elk from 500 yards away. Get free updates when we add new tips, articles and more! There's plenty of people that are just fine a 500 yds. I also needed a better optic with more vertical adjustment to make the hits at longer range. I was hitting softball size groups. Those folks who actually do have that great deal of training and practice, once again, know better than to take outrageously long shots on our valuable big game animals. A .223 Wylde can shoot both cartridges. View Latest Price . Even with two identical guns with the same crown made by the same manufacturer, one of them could just be randomly more accurate than another. With that bullet and velocity what distance do you think that might occur at? I was going to ask about the 7mms as well. But now I wanted to see if it could be done. Shot 80 grain .223 rounds at the 1,000 yard line during an InterService match in Quantico Virginia. Get proficient on YOUR time. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Known for inherent accuracy and for being mild-mannered to . My favorite for many years is the 7mmX300 Weatherby on a Ruger No.1 with a Schillen @ 24'' a long with the 264 Win. Personalize your experience. To me, those are akin to lobbing footballs at something. With todays state-of-the-art machining, most rifles are capable of extremely fine accuracy. Because the pressure on these two cartridges is measured quite differently, it is difficult to get a clear apples-to-apples comparison. Ill be honest; I may be a huge Grendel fanboy. What about 22-250? I've updated my chart to include M193 and 62gr and 70gr TSX loads. Those are the hunting rifles, see a pattern? . Depending on your ammo and rifle, that can vary between 150 and 400-yards. The Zero-Reset allows the shooter to zero the scope, then with an Allen wrench remove the turret screws, return the turret setting back to zero and lock the turrets in place. Is it the 6.5 CM on steriodes but with out the kick of the 300 win mag? Time to figure in some holdover using the reticle and fire away. The basics: A .223 Remington can be fired in a 5.56x45mm marked barrel, but not the other way around. $500-$750 (3) $750-$1,000 (8) $1,000-$2,000 (38) $2,000-$5,000 (13 . Type your new password and hit button below to confirm it. I would love if you had any info on a ar-10 or 15 barrel in bolt replacement that would fit in my palmetto guns for the 6.5 prc ???? Let us know in the comments below! You do not pay . The 6.5 CM is superior to the .308 Win in just about any practical sense of the matter with better range, less effect with wind, and less bullet drop. I still like my 300 Win. 7 mm. when it comes to long range hunting I have to stick to my 7mm mag custom made bolt action, an extremely flat trajectory and shots at over 1000 yards are very common. You can even pick it up at your local neighborhood Wal-Mart. Full Range Speakers; Fuses & Accessories; Installation Accessories; Marine & ATV Amplifiers . Bottom line, I agree its in our best interest and the animals' best interest to get as close as we can. Mag. This hybrid chamber can fire both .223 Remington and 5.5645 NATO ammo with safety and accuracy. Shouldn't penetration at the point of termination be a consideration? Hornady 223 55 Gr SP Hornady sells a nearly identical soft point as the Federal TRU. Once the zero was established shooting was done at various ranges on steel plates with the goal of hitting 1,000-yard targets before the shooting was done. .300 Win Mag is your ticket. .300 Winchester Magnum is a favorite of hunters worldwide for big game at long range. It's chambered in .223 Wylde which is optimized for exceptional accuracy with both .223 Remington or 5.56 NATO. It's basically 6.5cm on roides, yes. This pressure difference makes it potentially dangerous to shoot the 5.56 NATO out of a .223 Remington chamber. The long range military rifles on my list would start with the .338 Lapua, .375 Cheytec, .408 Cheytac, the .416 Barrett and finally the .50 Bmg. After the first class was over I confirmed my zero at 100-yards and put five shots into about a one-inch group. Made from high-quality materials. TRYBE Tactical Range Bag; The .223 Remington, as designed by Stoner with help . Learn the 3 most popular shooting stances & more. I was regularly seeing 1.5 groups with 55-grain full metal jacket ammo at 100-yards. While at the High Bar Homestead with PSA, I was able to stretch their 6.5 Grendel out to 1,000 yards with Federal Premium 130 grain Bergers. The article is "7 Best Long-Range Cartridges: Hit Stuff Really Far Away". I always favored the .264 Win Mag. Did you consider the transition from supersonic to subsonic and possible bullet tumbling as the range stretched out? All you need is a magazine for the .224 round and the 6.8 SPC mags do a very good job. As you spin the dials for elevation and windage to make your shot, you need only keep in mind the correction you need to dial. There are many of us who have rifles to attempt to master the art of long range steel shooting. According to the ballistics charts on the boxes. For long rang range hunting my list would go .257 Weatherby Magnum, the flattest shooting hunting cartridge period, Next the 6.5-.300 Weatherby Magnum, it outperforms any other 6.5 period, The .30-378 Weatherby holds 120 grains of water and outperforms any other .30 caliber cartridge and has the longest point blank range of any .30, including the Lazzeronis. If I was going to combat today anywhere besides the flattest of deserts, a 16-inch barrel would be my choice. A .223 will kill a coyote at 500 yards..if you can hit it. Umm.. the .300 mag is far superior to the 308. While I was at TriggrCon 2019, I got to sit down with the people from Riton Optics. I haven't done it, but my DOPE chart tells me it should be very doable. The 308 is a good round and in many cases there's no reason to replace it with a 6.5C unless you just want to.. On the other hand if you're starting fresh, there's not much reason to buy a 308 over a 6.5C. And to reach out that faryoull need some quality glass, so check out our article on the Best Long Range Scopes. I was shooting bulk bullets that I hand loaded, but in no way spent time optimizing for long range precision. More than anything, we wanted to see if shooters could expect differences in velocity between the two. Ammo availability has become extensive for the 6.5 Creedmoor. 19150 view(s) . Is that as a result of a tighter freebore space in the Wylde rifle? the flattest cartridge I can find. That's a fine caliber, I said. mag. The .223 is effective from 400-600 meters. The chamber dimensions for the 5.56 are slightly larger than a .223 chamber. Complete with ammo suggestions, capability, rifles, and more. we started testing in VIET-NAM, they were great, even at LONG range. Need to drop an Elk at 500 yards? Rate it below. purchase helps support my work in bringing you more awesome gun and gear articles. While the Wylde muzzle velocities came in slightly faster, were talking about a one percent difference. Need even more long range optics? In other words, can I just remove my .223 Wylde/5.56 NATO223 upper assy and install the PSA .224 Valkyrie upper? The .22 Nosler uses a 1:8 twist rate in its barrels, restricting bullet weight to 85 grains or less. Another 5.5 MOA and I was able to make 3 hits consecutively on this very small steel (about a 12"x12" plate). We haven't gotten any trigger time with it yet, but I'm hoping to do some testing soon. Re: Real world accuracy: 223 wylde chamber V 5.56 nato The army uses a 5.56 chamber in their Mann Accuracy Devices to test ammo. If you took the Statue of Liberty and laid it down, thats almost 20 Statues of Liberty long. Ill go over exactly what I used from the rifle to the optic, ammo, and more so you can do the same thing! I wish there was more talk around 308 since you've established it as the baseline by which all long range cartridges are judged. . At each cut length, velocity was measured with a Magnetospeed chronograph. A called coyote should come in to well under 100 yards, and usually more on the order of between 20-60 yards. The best barrel length for a 7.6239 is 16-in (40.64 cm). That he us army has recorded kills with a 5.56 using black hills 77 grain ammo at 1800 yards? thanks and what of the 6.5cm PRC you have a picture of it but dont mention it. Based off a standard 55gr bullet leaving the barrel at 3,215fps and follows the bullet trajectry all the way to 1000 yards in steps of 50 yard increments. Surprising how many people seem to have forgotten the .264 W mag. At the end of the day, your skill and time on a rifle is a much larger factor on how ethical a shot is. The Wylde change in leade angle means the chamber . The .223 Wylde produces optimal performance (even with less expensive ammo) and provides considerable versatility. PSA Custom .223 Wylde 16" Mid-Length 1/7 Nitride13.5" Cross-Cut MLok MOE EPT Rifle w/MBUS - Grey . you want some facts, ask bill wylde. Another downside is that the 6mm Creedmoor does not buck the wind, It honestly feels like cheating when you are behind a quality 6.5 Creedmoor. Although these two popular cartridges have a lot in common, their similarities are mostly skin deep. The general rule: It is safe to fire .223 Rem. It honestly feels like cheating when you are behind a quality 6.5 Creedmoor. The cases were then full-length resized and trimmed to 1.750 with aDillon Rapid Trim 1500 Case Trimmer. The real limitation to stretching the limits is the optic. In short, they wanted an intermediate cartridge with more power and a longer effective range than a pistol cartridge, but without the power and recoil of a full-powered rifle cartridge. Like Alice in Wonderland, you can go down a very deep rabbit hole of different calibers and cartridges for long-range shooting. Long range shooting is fun. Our Fusion line is great example. You are using an out of date browser. Show Results Show Results. This required a total of 28 MOA of elevation. Even then youre talking about a 1/4 MOA Shot. I know someone will. Thats a couple hundred dollars more than an entry-level AR-15. Rotary bolt-style magazine. Right now options are really slim and ammo prices are really high. Its much safer. Even with kinetic energy factored in, after 500 yards, the 6.5 CM pulls away as the leader due to its retained velocity. The SAINT Edge ATC Elite features a B5 Systems Precision Stock that is collapsible and allows for cheek riser and length of pull adjustment. The barrel is chambered in .223 Wylde, which is a great choice for a rifle like this. High ballistic coefficient bullets around 100 grains give this round excellent performance out to 1,000 yards. Sierra released its 69-grain MatchKing .224 in 1984 and literally added length to the competitive potential of the AR-15. My first successful hunt with a rifle was an antelope (ie, very small kill zone compared to an elk) shot at 330 yards. Unless the 300WM was down-loaded to unsafe levels, the 308 will never beat it. not a fave I take it, Curious what your thoughts are about the Win 300 WSM. JavaScript is disabled. The Adaptable Cartridge The .223 has proven to be an adaptable, reliable, and versatile caliber. Here I was shooting a rifle and cartridge combination that most people think is a much shorter range proposition. If you hunt prairie dogs or coyotes with lightweight .223 bullets, this twist rate will do fine for your needs. Among civilians, .223 is largely used for target shooting and small game or varmint hunting. 18" .223 Wylde AR build for longer ranges I got the JP captured assembly when it first came out, as I got a good deal on it, and wanted to try it. wanting to hunt with it as wells a compete win PRC Im thinking it is all that Ineed and a little more.